Thyroid Question

Thank you for answering my post about thyroid below. One more question: Is it significant to get a test for antibodies?


It depends on what your symptoms are. If you have signs of hypothyroidism, but your tests always seemed to come out normal, it might be worthwhile. The antibodies can indicate Hashimoto's, and that is a fairly common problem with one's thyroid. With Hashimoto's you can go from hyper to hypo and back again as your thyroid tissue is slowly destroyed. The antibodies would indicate that while your tests are coming back normal, there is an underlying reason for the way you feel. I had that test done, but showed no antibodies, my problem seems to be converting the T4 to T3, but then again there seems to be another problem in utilizing the T3 properly. People with MS can do have high cortisol, which can turn T4 to reverse T3, but that does not seem to be my problem either. I am not sure what it is... there are so many things that can go wrong with the thyroid and hormone utilization, he would think doctors would be more willing to test using full thyroid panels. I am much better now, I can stay awake, and sleep soundly when I go to bed, but my energy is still not normal, and I don't know what all of the reasons are. Small doses of cortisol is a help, but my guess is I am still heavy-metal challenged. I go tomorrow for some upper cervical chiropractic work, am wondering if structural defects are preventing me from detoxing properly..

http://www.mefmaction.net/default.aspx?page=educationalmaterials

One of the parts of the innate immune system gets activated when a
virus crosses a barrier. Interferon activates either of the 2-5OAS
(2-5 oligoadenylate synthetase) or PKR enzymes. In CFS, 2-5OAS is
highly activated (upregulated). When activated, it uses up alot of
ATP and binds to and activates RNaseL, the end result being the
cutting up of the viral RNA.

2-5OAS proteins come in 3 forms: dimers, trimers, tetramers. For
each active 2-5OAS, there is an equivalent inactive 2-5OAS-like
protein formed. And its these latter proteins which have a 98%
homology to the T3 cellular thyroid hormone receptor-interacting
proteins. So, they tend to take up the spots on the thyroid
receptors but have no capacity to activate the cellular metabolism as
T3 would do. Hypothyroid state results, yet the blood work looks
normal.

What is worse, is if the trimer and tetramer forms are involved, as
the 2-5OAS-like protein and T3 cell receptor go thru a special
process called ubiquitination. This causes the compound to be taken
to the cell protease where it will be destroyed. Hence, thyroid
receptors are actually being destroyed!!

You ask how this can be measured. Normally in the blood T4 levels
are greater than T3. Once the T4 is converted to T3, the
measurement in the urine would show T4 levels less than T3. But in
CFS cases, the urine still shows T4 levels greater than T3.

He finds it necessary to supplement Cytomel T3 to prevent the
receptors from being destroyed.

See the following for even more detail on this:
http://www.phoenix-cfs.org/RNaseLThyroid03.htm

Some of this testing can be done at Dr. Meirleir's lab in Nevada:

www.redlabsusa.com


Marilyn,
I am glad you are doing better and sleeping ok. I do not have MS, but the insomnia has been a life long problem for me. I take melatonin and benadryl that both help me sleep, but only if my GI tract is not giving me a fit. The only way I have ever been tested for thyroid is the TSH test and it was less than 2.5. I have the orders for the free t3, but I am thinking about calling and asking this doctor why he doesn't want to do the other tests that you mentioned. They had told me by phone before I made the appt that he would probably do whatever tests I wanted done. All of this is so hard to understand. I will be getting my cortisol and dhea tested by a saliva test. The cortisol was high five years ago. I did not realize the significance of it at the time. I know so little about all this and I like to be prepared when going to a doc. Can you point me in the direction to learn? The info that you printed in the latter part of your post was way over my head. I will still try to understand, but I think I need to go a little farther back to basics. I have Shomon's book and also the adrenal book by James Wilson. I suppose if one has high cortisol and low dhea that supplementing with dhea would help. Anyway, I will just try to get this doc to test for the four things that you named. The reason I was asking about the antibody test is that I knew that this doc was testing someone else for that.

One more thing I wanted to ask you: How do you feel about the FIR saunas. I know that you had one and that Cutler is against them for mercury. Mercury is my biggest problem and I haven't tried much of anything to get rid of it. Did you think they were good for You?

I don't want to take up your time. If you just have time to write a quick answer, I really appreciate it.

Hi Patsy, the latter part of my last post was very technical and I can't say that I understood all of it either. I just included to demonstrate that they are learning new things all the time about thyroid hormones and it should make doctors a little more humble than they are. I always tested high in estrogen specifically estradiol and estrogen to0 interferes with thyroid hormone utilization and receptor sites. But no one told me the link the link between the two. If you are mercury poisoned you may have trouble converting T4 to T3 as it interferes with the enzyme 5 iodinase that does that. In fact mercury seems to screw up iodine completely. But I personally do not react well to iodine.

I'm no expert by any means. I just don't understand what the problem is running full thyroid panels... my T4 was always normal, my TSH was always normal, and nobody bothered to test the T3, which turned out to be the problem. If someone had taken the time to investigate sooner, I would probably not be so insensitive to T3 hormone.

Mercury also interferes with selenium and you might find that supplementation with selenium or iodine might help you. If you do have antibodies, be careful with the iodine as it seems to make Hashimoto's worse. And of course if you are mercury poisoned, your liver is probably not functioning all that well.

I did the infrared sauna religiously for about a year.. I personally think it was hard on my adrenal glands, but I did not sweat properly in it. I was trying to do this before I was on the proper thyroid medication, and that may have been some of my problem. I think it depends on how sick you are. I was probably not doing enough salt either. I have discovered salt is a very big help energy wise. Progesterone helps you to hang onto salt, and I was always very low in the hormone.

I just went to an upper cervical chiropractor... This chiropractor has her beds a couple of inches off the floor, so I had to arrange for the MS society to deliver a Hoyer lift to be delivered to her office, as there is no way I can get up and off the floor. There are loaning me the lift for six months or so, and the chiro is keeping it at her office.I had and a series of x-rays and I must it's very interesting. The discs are in reasonable shape, slight losses but not grotesque. However, my head is not on straight!

http://www.uppercervical.org/subpages/ucprocedure.htm

The Atlas is a single, 2 oz. doughnut-shaped vertebra at the top of the spine. Trillions of nerve fibers from the brainstem travel through the small opening in atlas and flow down into the spinal column. Because of the smallness of the opening and because of the atlas� close proximity to the brain stem, if the atlas has moved out of position even a fraction of a degree, two very serious things can result.It seems that my misalignment is 9�... the chiropractor said that she only normally sees this kind of problem if someone has been in a very serious car accident or had some other form of head trauma. I was rather shocked looking at the x-ray, because I have never been in a car accident nor can I recall any kind of major blow to the head. But even I can see that things are majorly out of whack. She told me that she might be able to correct it by half,but she did not think she could totally get things back into alignment.

The other thing that showed up is major bone loss. I am sorry that I ever stopped progesterone. I always tested low in it... it has been showing to maintain bone density. Salt also helps you maintain bone density... So I will continue to get these adjustments which are very different than I have had before. These are very quick and specific. Supposedly the rest of the spine follows the placement of the C1. In other words when it is properly placed you do not have to adjust the rest of the spine. I like this woman, she does not promise a lot. But she has worked with MS a lot and says that it is so hard to determine what is causing what. From my x-rays I understand how there could be a lot of compression on the spinal cord. My neck has always bothered me. I cannot turn my head side to side without hearing all kinds of grinding sounds and it hurts. So like everything else with this crazy condition, I will keep pursuing what makes sense to me. It will probably take a dozen adjustments in my case to see if anything will result.... Dietrich Klinghardt says the structural abnormalities of the spine can prevent you from detoxing properly. It is all too complicated....



Marilyn,
I am amazed at your perseverance. You have learned so much and are always finding another link that helps or might help. I read the site about the upper cervical. How did you hear about that? Is that in any way connected to MS? I wonder if this chiro usually can correct that kind of problem completely and if so why she can only correct yours by half. I know that leaves you wondering why you ended up with the problem if you have never had a blow to the head.

About the bone loss, I have read that silica is a major player in the prevention of bone loss. I haven't tried it because I need to research if further first and other things seem to be priorities. I am not sure if I should take the salt or not since I have high blood pressure. I will keep that in mind though.

I have taken 200 mcg of selenium and at least I know that it didn't go against me. I should do that again. If you think the infrared sauna was hard on your adrenals, I had better think on that a while. I am having my cortisol tested soon, but I am sure they are a mess. Were you able to sweat in other ways than in the fir sauna, for instance in the sun? I sweat quite a bit in the sun.

I live in the worst place possible to be able to find good doctors. I am in west Tennessee.

Thank you for your answere and good luck.

Well I do persevere, but I don't see any choice in the matter. I don't think any of us ever expect to be hit with health problems. I came from good Irish peasant stock, and I just expected to be hale and hardy into old age. If you don't keep looking for answers, you will not find the path that might lead you back to health.

I did not come across the upper cervical information... it was Polly that alerted me to this form of chiropractic. I go again tomorrow. The only thing I have noticed so far is an ability to turn my head further to the right, but that in itself is quite amazing considering my lack of range of motion. I try not to get too excited about things these days, because nothing really has worked so far, but then I say to myself, when you find the right thing it is bound to help a lot...

I know what you mean about trying to find good practitioners. When I lived in Calgary Alberta back in 1985 for so, I thought I was in the desert. I gather that it has improved, but when I looked there alternate health practitioners were few and far between. So far I am pleased with the number of good people here on the island... there are so few good climates in Canada, people who can afford it want to live here, and that includes doctors. So far I have not had difficulty in finding what I need. And Canada is truly unenlightened place. The government gives me money every month to spend on home support etc. as I need it so I don't waste my energy on the minutiae of life, I get help cleaning cooking etc. It is wonderful because my helpers will juice for me etc. They will cook according to my instructions, so I have some control over diet. The allowance is generous, about $3000 a month. I feel very fortunate.


I found a practitioner not too far from me who I had high hopes for. I think he calls his practice functional medicine. He is checking more than most md's will check but he is the one who is only checking my free t3. Anyway, I told him I had mercury poisoning because I felt he needed to know because of there being so many problems with what supplements you can take. I told him I had not been tested but that I knew I had it b/c I immediately got MCS when my amalgams were removed and I have all these other symptoms that coincide with mercury poisoning. Pain in ankles is a sign of mercury poisoning. He said that was arthritis and that I shouldn't decide that I have it b/c he had seen people give up b/c they thought they had a certain disease. I didn't tell him at the time(I will later) but if I were to give up it would be because of my symptoms and not because of a certain name of what I have. Anyway, I just needed to vent.

It sounds like you really do have a good deal. I can't imagine having someone coming in and doing my juicing. That is sure to lift your spirits.

I hated to hear that you think the infrared messed up your adrenals. I have read a lot of controversy about them lately. I was counting on that as a detox.

I have a question about dentists. I have found one nearer to me than the one that removed my amalgams eight years ago. But I am unsure if he is good enough. When I asked about the materials he used, I got the idea that they just used two different things. I'm thinking it is not as important as when you are getting them removed, but still I am a little scared. I have the appt for tuesday. I need to post this question on the mercury forum.

Thanks Marilyn