Stomach Ulcer

I have been sure I had a stomach ulcer for quite a while and have taken manuka honey from New Zealand, mastic gum, and dgl. I may not have been agressive enough, but now I feel I have to take the meds prescribed(I was tested positive for h-pylori). I was prescribed amoxicillin, clarithromycin, and prevacid. Here are my questions: I had seen the triple therapy mentioned numerous places, but the third med was bismuth instead of prevacid. Since then I have been searching and see both meds mentioned, the bismuth and the prevacid(either or) along with the two antibiotics. What I don't understand about the prevacid is that I have read that low stomach acid is the breeding ground for the h-pylori. So would it be a good thing to be getting rid of stomach acid during the abx treatment? You all know what all the natural docs say about proton pump inhibitors. Is this treatment just an exception? More Questions: I have a book, "Ulcer Free" that says zinc-carnosine helps those abx and it makes eradication 100% as compared to 85% when taking abx w/o it. I plan on trying that. Anyone know anything about that? Also since cabbage juice kills h-pylori if you drink enough, would it be a good idea to try that at the same time? Also how much probiotics do I need to do two hours after abx and what kind is best. I am taking culturelle right now but have read that DDS-1 is the best. Anyone know? The guy that wrote the book about DDS-1, Khem Shahani also sells it(or his company since he has since died) but it is really believable. He has been studying probiotics for many years
So I hope someone can answer at least some of my questions or even just tell me what to do. My meds were called in more than two weeks ago but I had to wait until I knew I was doing the right thing. I had to get through Christmas, New Year's Day, and company.
I had to take an antiobiotic recently for an infection and it caused a yeast infection but I was able to get rid of that fairly easy b/c of being menopausal.
Oh yeah, another question: They say these abx can cause lots of side effects including diarrhea and that they can be hard on the kidneys. I don't know what shape my kidneys are in but I do have mercury poisoning, so probably not good.
Please someone if you have any answers let me know. If you don't, maybe you could direct me to the right place. Thanks.




Apple cider vinegar. Either liquid or pill form.

It sure has made a difference with my ulcers. They scoped me so I know I have a couple of small one. or did have. I have been using ACV for about a year. Works for me.

Rue


Rue, Does the acv make your ulcer feel better. I have wanted to try that, but when I am trying to make my stomach quit burning, I just can't make myself take something that I think makes it burn more. They also say cayenne and that is also hard to feel like it is ok to do. Do you know whether you have the h-pylori? Are you mainly going by the way you feel that the acv has helped? Thanks so much for your reply.


When they scoped me the tested for H. pylori and I was negative.

The interesting thing about ACV is that it starts out as an acid and then turns into an alkali. I found that by the 3rd day I felt better. I took the pill forn from American Health.

Rue


Rue, Thanks so much for your reply. I will try the acv. I do have the h-pylori though and know the acv will have to be combined with something else. I am going to do some studying on the acv. Thanks

Patsy


Have you tried l glutamine for healting the gut? Also slippery elm and aloe vera(good quality) should be soothing and healing. I have never heard of prevecid for actual ulcer. I have only heard of using this for acid reflux. And, Yes, it does help the h-pyloria proliferate due to the fact that you need the acid to kill the bacteria. Bismuth would be a better choice and bismuth with antibiotics is usually the treatment that does not respond to the natural things that you tried which by the way are very good things. I have heard of this product that you are talking about.There is one that is called naturess lining but I have not used it.


Liz, Thanks so much for your reply. I have not tried glutamine and I have not tried aloe vera or slippery elm recently or at least for this problem. I believe I am at the point now that I am at the mercy of the abx but just want to find enough info on the prevacid to tell the doc why I don't want to do that. He tries to appear to be listening but he has a closed mind. I will try all of those things as I know they are supposed to help but I don't think they claim to kill h-pylori. I looked up the nature's lining that you mentioned and it is the zinc-carnosine. I am definetely going to do that with the abx but am just afraid of the acid blocker. I am going to do more searching to see why they think blocking the acid is a good thing. I think I'll also do lots of cabbage juice and a good probiotic---maybe even in an implant. Someone said do colonics at the same time. I am praying for answers because I only want to take abx once and I want to do it right. Thanks so much for your advice.


The suggested herbals are for healing and you are correct that they dont actually kill h pylora. (with the exception of mastic gum which is supposed to kill h pylora). what you could do is take the bismuth and antibiotics.Instead of using an acid blocker, you could try the natural things like DGL,slippery elm aloe etc. These help with acid. IF you are worried about making the doctor upset, take the prescription and have it on hand just in case the natural things dont work. I would try to avoid the acid blockers myself. They have recently been comming out with articles revealing the negative uses of acid blockers.I wish that you didnt have to resort to antibiotics . It sounds like you have been unable to irradicate the bug naturally thou and you dont want to have further problems with this. Have you done any research on other herbals that kill h pylora?


Liz, I can't tell you how much I appreciate your taking the time to answer my post. I have done a lot of research on naturals to kill h-pylori, a lot of it was on this forum. There was a guy named Harold who seemed to know a lot about it. He said manuka honey from New Zealand and mastic gum and dgl. I have tried all of those. I have also read about cabbage juice killing it in two weeks(well I'm not sure if that was h-pylori or just curing ulcer). I may do that along with the abx. I have also read that drinking a lot of water will cure an ulcer. It doesn't even seem to stop the burn for me. Also there are the things that you, Rue, and Shari mentioned.

Right now I am reading an article from The Townsend Letter at www.townsendletter.com/july2004/unseenepidemic0704.htm

It links achlorhydria and atrophic gastritis and h-pylori. It says that h-pylori is not easily attached unless there is low stomach acid. I haven't reached the end yet to find out if they tell you what to do. The low stomach acid is the reason I question the PPI.(I'm like you --- I have been advising people to not take them for a few years). However, I did finally find an answer as to why they use the PPI with the abx. I believe it was in another Townsend Letter article, this one by Alan Gaby. It said the abx work better with the PPI. In a way I can see that that could be the case and that maybe it wouldn't be too bad for two weeks. I don't know.

As far as my doc is concerned, it wasn't that I was afraid of making him upset. It was just that I would like to do this under a doctor's care and I would like his approval of the pepto bismol since it says on the bottle not to take if you have an ulcer. I hope I don't have to call him. It has been three weeks since he prescribed the meds. I called the pharmacist to find out exactly which meds they were and he told me he had this several years ago and took one of the abx(I believe) and bismuth. I forgot to ask if he took the bismuth in the form of pepto bismol. I bet he didn't because he said it was prescribed.

Yes, I wish I didn't have to resort to abx too, but I'm also afraid of leaving this bug in there. I was going to try the cabbage juice before I resorted to the abx but I am now being pressured into this because the meds are waiting and my family thinks I am crazy for not just running up there and taking what the doc ordered. Partly too, I had already tried so many things.

I'm not through researching. Your idea of having the acid blocker on hand in case the naturals don't work sounds good. The only thing...if it needs to be taken with the abx, I would have messed up the triple therapy. I know some caring natural doc knows the answer and I'll look some more.

I do so appreciate all of you helping me. The article that I mentioned above might be a good read for anyone concerned about stomach acid. I think a lot of The Townsend Letter and use the letters tldp in a lot of my searches.
Thanks

Patsy


Now that I am thinking of it, dont some of the acid blockers also have agents in them that heal the stomach lining? Maybe that is why the triple antibiotic therapy is what you need then. I know it is a tough decision always to have to resort to antibioiotics(I go thru this often with various infections that I deal with). Sometimes thou, nothing else works for me. My brother in law was recently treated for an ulcer and he is completely healed of it. I will ask him what meds he was given and will get back to you about it.


Liz, Thanks so much for helping me. It has been good to not feel so alone in this. I want to give you a quote from The Townsend Letter article that I mentioned before. :

"The Effect of Plant Antimicrobials
A different approach to the use of antibiotics has been investigated by researchers at the University of Wolverhampton in Great Britain, who have assessed the potential for use of plant antimicrobials in treatment of Helicobacter infections. They found that three different strains of H. pylori were highly sensitive to some mixtures of essential oils, particularly oregano. The most effective was a mixture of oregano, clove, wormwood and ginger oils. A summary of their results is shown below (Table 1). It can be seen that the Minimum Inhibitory Concentration (MIC) and Minimum Bactericidal Concentration (MBC) lies between 17-47mcg/ml and 35-110mcg/ml respectively for all strains tested."

The table they talked about is included if you want to look at it. Then it goes on to say:

"These results confirmed that H. pylori is particularly sensitive to essential oils, especially when compared to E. coli, which is far less susceptible to this particular mixture and requires a different approach for effective in-vivo control.

Following the release of this data, Pharmax developed a product, Pyloricin, containing the same mixture of oils. In addition, in this product, the oil mixture is emulsified so that once in the stomach it produces a milky emulsion, enabling the antimicrobials to effectively disperse and penetrate the mucous layer and attack the surface and crypt-bound H. pylori cells.

Feedback from practitioners throughout the USA and UK indicates that eradication rates with Pyloricin is >70% and this is now being confirmed in independent human clinical trials using the radioactive labeled urea/urease breath test, which is rapidly becoming the gold standard for diagnosis."

This is from www.townsendletter.com/july2004/unseenepidemic0704.htm

I am more confused after doing more research. I have thought of calling my md and just talking to him about putting off the abx/triple therapy until I have a chance to try new things. It is even hard to know just what to put together. The different natural things are not usually mentioned together(or at least those more aggressive ones like zinc-carnosine and these essential oil mixtures). What I need is a holistic doc who knows about these or will read about them.

Liz, I appreciate all your help but I know I am wearing you out by keeping on sharing my concerns with you. If you answer back, I'll be thankful but if not I sure understand. You have helped me a lot already.

Patsy


You are not wearing me out at all and I am more than happy to help. I thought that it was an informative quote from the townsend letters (which by the way i love) I liked the way that they pointed out how different plant antibiotics act on different bacterias. I am sure that those herbs would knock out infection but they sure sound like they would burn also. IF you tried them, I would be sure and uses a stomach rebuilder and soother like the zinc carosine,dgl,slippery elm and glutamine. Do you think that your doctor would be open to your herbal therapy?
OH, my brother in law used an antibiotic, acid reducer and something called protonic.


Now that I am thinking of it, dont some of the acid blockers also have agents in them that heal the stomach lining? Maybe that is why the triple antibiotic therapy is what you need then. I know it is a tough decision always to have to resort to antibioiotics(I go thru this often with various infections that I deal with). Sometimes thou, nothing else works for me. My brother in law was recently treated for an ulcer and he is completely healed of it. I will ask him what meds he was given and will get back to you about it.


One more question: Would colostrum help with this ulcer or is that too much to try at once? Or would it be better to try that after I do the meds? Thanks

Patsy


Maybe try that after you have it healed. I havent heard any thing about colostrom and ulcers.


Don't know if this will help, but Sherry Rogers MD recommended this product in one of her newsletters

http://www.ritecare.com/prodsheets/TYL-131016.html

She says 2 twice/day for 2-4 weeks should do it.

You may wanna check out her book 'No More Heartburn' as well... its very very good and speaks to your situation.

Good luck.


Thanks Shari,
I checked out the ingredients in that product and I have already tried two out of three. I tried mastic gum and garlic, but not the lactoferrin. I am going to look that up since I don't know what it is. I have the book you mentioned. I will see what she says in that about ulcers.
Thanks a lot for answering.




lactoferrin is good for infection so maybe this would be a good combination to alternate with the other one that you found from townsend letter. You could always have the doc write you a script for the antibiotic and have it as a back up just in case you decide that the others are not working. I know what you mean about having a holistic doctor to help you. Some of the best doctors I have found are on this candida forum lol.