Die-Off From Probiotics?

I find it difficult to take probiotics because they seem to give me a die-off reaction. Is this unusual to get die-off just from a probiotic or could it be an adverse reaction to the probiotics themselves (although it does feel more like die off). Any help much appreciated.


Imagine a healthy gut. Full of several lbs of bacteria that create a slightly acidic millieu, digest proteins and sugars, prepare minerals and vitamins for absorbtion and secrete antimycotic enzymes that prevent yeast from attaching itself to the walls of the gut.

Now imagine that the healthy bacteria are damaged, either by xeno- or anti-biotics. The gut is no longer protected and yeast is able to attach itself to the walls of the gut and multiply.
Soon the gut is full of yeast. Food that was previously broken down by the healthy bacteria now decomposes and feeds the hungry yeast. The yeast creates an alkaline millieu and secretes a compound that prevents bacteria from adhering to the intestinal walls. Essentially the yeast creates an anaeobic environment very hostile to healthy aerobic bacteria.

Now you swallow probiotics. A few survive the stomach acid (some are enteric coated) and arrive in the large or small intestine, only to find an extremely hostile environment. Unable to compete with the yeast, their cells are damaged or die and the contents absorbed through the leaky gut walls to cause symptoms of their own.

In my experience, the only way to repopulate the gut with healthy bacteria is to first remove the reason why the yeast is there in the first place (antibiotics or xenobiotics), then kill off the yeast with an antifungal, followed by an intensive probiotic program, designed to repopulate the depleted, but no longer hostile gut.


taking probiotics should cause some die-off. The lactic acid itself would.

Afterall, it is good flora being there that keeps candida in check normally.


Hi Steve. That really does make sense and I understand what you are saying. However it doesnt explain my reaction to the probiotics. Thats what I dont understand - how taking them even at small doses can produce toxic symptoms in my body. If they really were not doing very much at all surely they would just pass straight through causing little or no reaction? I am not challenging you in any way - I just keep wondering why I react like I do to probiotics. Maybe it is just an intolerance but it does seem to feel very much like the symptoms I get when I take anything antifungal. In view of the fact you feel that probitics dont colonise until the yeast is eliminated anyway - maybe I should refrain from trying to introduce them at the moment. Many thanks for your thoughts.


In my experience, intolerance and die-off are very hard to distinguish from one another. On the other hand, I don't claim to have all the answers. In my case, I took large doses of probiotics during my candida infection and measured the results on a regular basis. Despite spending many hundreds of dollars on the therapy, nothing changed as long as the Candida was still present.


I can personally vouch that probiotics do indeed cause die off. I went off them for about 3 months straight and when I started them up again I got horrible reactions. I know it's not a intolerance because I took the same brand before for 2 years straight. Also when I when I take a couple of days off them I feel much much better. I now have to build up slowly. Hope this helps.


Yes that does help. Many thanks for your opinion.


I can personally vouch that probiotics do indeed cause die off. I went off them for about 3 months straight and when I started them up again I got horrible reactions. I know it's not a intolerance because I took the same brand before for 2 years straight. Also when I when I take a couple of days off them I feel much much better. I now have to build up slowly. Hope this helps.

Amanda, i have exactly the same problem, that i CANT distinguish if i am getting a die off reaction from certain things... which would be nice really, or if it is a negative reaction... which i dont want to provoke further.

I seem to be okay with probiotics, apart from i get bloated if i take a MEGA dose. I have just started to take Natures Biotics again, they can survive a hostile environment, so i dont feel i am wasting my money on them, plus they are supposed to actually feed off candida! so they are probably safer if you have candida in small bowel, but it can take a while before benefits are seen. Before i began the antifungals i was taking twenty NBs throughout the day without any problem, my plan was to blitz the candida, i cut back to seven during the night because i thought the antifungals would kill them, and seven seemed enough in one dose anyway. I buy mine from kiki.co.uk. I am trying to see if i can sort this thing out WITHOUT Diflucan.

Have you tried anything that has helped lately? i might have another colonic at some stage, although i felt dreadfull after the last one, and vowed never again, i did feel better a couple of weeks later, better than before i had it. I will have to wait untill after EPD though, as not allowed to do anything that could interfere with the new colony of T cells that have to mature, this takes about two to three weeks.


Hi, I wonder the same thing about probiotics. my feeling is it is die-off, but it could be a bad reaction.

if you had bacterial overgrowth in your small intestine (SIBO) it would be a bad reaction.

its hard to say. i suspect we are too sensitive for the levels of probiotics available. but it could be a bad reaction.

you could try tiny amounts of fos. many here are against it but im a believer, although i can never tolerate much. if you had SIBO itwould again make things worse.

another way you could try is experiment with different types of probiotic. for instance the lactospore one. i think higher nature do a version.

good luck.


Depending on the strenth (number of viable bacteria) and strain, probiotics can cause as much candida dieoff as any antifungal. Homemade 24 hour yogurt is amazing... you have be careful, as the dieoff from this can be dangerous. You actually need to take care with ALL antifungals, and not overdo it.


I understand how healthy gut bacteria can release antimycotic agents that prevent Candida from populating the gut but I don't see how probiotics could even start to kill-off Candida that's already well established.

Nothing's impossible but IMO its highly unlikely the probiotics can cause die-off


I recently read that probio can cause die off: "Acidophillus controls candida (yeast) by making the intestinal tract more acidic to discourage the growth of candida, and by producing hydrogen peroxide, which directly kills candida." Not sure how valid the source of the info is per se, but did find this tidbit intriguing...


Your source is probably correct but the Acidophillus needs to be living in the gut to have that effect. Swallowing a few Acidophillus capsules will have very little effect when the gut is overgrown with Candida.


Many thanks everyone for your replies. Obviously some mixed opinions but I do feel that probiotics cause me a reaction of some kind whether this be good (die-off) or bad (negative/intolerance) I am not sure. It does feel like die-off and in every sense as strong as with antifungals. Ann - regarding those Soil Based Organisms - I find those very very strong and I know for definate those provoked a marked intolerance - I think it was the grasses in there. However my sisters little girl who "was" autistic and riddled with candida swears by the Kiki brand. They seem to be promoted alot in autism but those groups do seem to be way ahead of us. Thanks again


Hi, I think Natures Biotics come either with or without the grasses, the type with grasses are very simlair to Primal Defence, but i use the ones without, i am sure i would react to the grasses too. maybe you would be okay with the straight forward SBOs.


Hi. Thanks for that info. I didnt realise that Natures Biotics did two SBO formulations. Thats good news. It always strikes me as odd why supplement manufacturers put those grasses in the SBO - after all most people with gut issues seem unable to tolerate them. I will check out that information. Thanks again


.......regarding comments about bacterial overgrowth in the small intestines. How would I know if this was a problem? I do have some signs of bacterial overgrowth - chronic bacterial infections and a very pronounced die-off reaction to a prescribed antibiotic that lasted two days where my heart was beating so fast I thought I would die. The doctor had never known anything like it before. I just assumed that bacterial overgrowth was as a result of yeast overgrowth allowing other baddies to take over and would rebalance once candida was brought back under control. Are there any tests I would need for bacterial overgrowth in the small intestine and would they really be necessary? I wonder also why taking probiotics would make this bacterial overgrowth worse? Sorry for all the questions. Any further advice is much appreciated. Thanks


hi, your doctor will know about SIBO and the NHS can do a test for it. It is probably very common and goes along with candida infection easily

Your small intestine is meant to be pretty clear of bacteria, especially the upper bit, cos this is where most of our digestion takes place. A healthy gut makes it inhospitable for bacteria, so it cant live there. But if for any reason the small intestines ways of keeping that area clear is reduced, then bacteria will start to live there.

this can be good bacteria or bad bacteria. the problem is it is living in an area where it shouldnt be allowed to live, and ends up competing with ourselves for food as well.

a lot of the symptoms will be similar to candida overgrowth. most of the them feed off sugar.

I would mention it to your GP and get him to send you for the test. Biolab also do the test.

people with shortened small intestines due to surgery quite often get lactic acidosis cos the friendly flora is living too high up their smaller intestine. this is an example of how good flora can be bad for people.

Things that naturally keep the upper small intestine clear are secretory IGA frm the immune system, digestive enzymes, the housekeeper wave etc.

if you have both candida and SIBO then antibiotics will make the candida flourish.


Hi. Thanks for the info. It sounds quite possible that as well as candida I could have SIBO. I will have a word with my GP and see if he can test. However its catch 22 because he would more than likely want to prescribe antibiotics which would make all my problems worse. Interesting by the way about the vets. I am amazed when I take my dog along just how many tests they can do - she gets better treatment than I do!


yes he would prescribe antibiotics but of course I wouldnt advise taking them.

Its the same idea as candida, expcept candida is a fungus. Thats why I prefer to try antimicrobials, rather than antifungals. antimicrobials usually act against bacteria, fungus and parasites. Things like goldenseal etc. Caprylic acid only acts against fungus.

With SIBO, its the same general principle as candida overgrowth. Both of them are growing in places they shouldnt be able to grow. In this case too high in the small intestine.

along with antimicrobials, i would be epxerimenting with substitutes for what normally makes that part of the intestine inhospitable to bacteria, like enzymes and colostrum.

It is weird how vets seem to understand these problems in animals yet doctors dont in humans.

Anyway its just something to think about. You can get a test through the NHS (a breath test I think)

When bacteria can flourish in a part of the small intestine where it isnt supposed to, it can cause problems whether its good or bad flora. Acidophilus grows in the lower end of the small intestine and is helpful there.

I would still guess candida is the main problem.

And it could well just be an intolerance. Or even a reaction to the acidity (since probiotics are acidic)

Good luck


Actually the small intestine should be jam-packed with bacteria. A great deal of our digestion has to do with healthy bacteria in our gut converting minerals and vitamins into forms that are easily digested.
Problems arise when the healthy bacteria are damaged and replaced by pathogenic, gram negative anaerobic bacilli and yeasts. They break down food, but the resulting metabolites include powerful peptides that damage the gut wall and cause metabolic disorders and symptoms elsewhere in the body


actually, its the colon that is jam-packed with bacteria.

the lower small intestine has a reasonable amount of lactobacillus type bacteria (much lower than in the colon), but the upper small intestine is relatively clear of bacteria.

SIBO is accepted as fact by orthodox medicine. Whether probiotics helps or should be avoided for SIBO is debated.


I guess it depends how you define jam-packed.

A healthy individual should have about 10,000 viable bacteria per gram in the Jejunum, between 10 to the 5 and 10 to the 8 in the illeum and between 10 to the 10 and 10 to the 12 in the Colon.


it sounds like you have done some research since my post to you.


Indeed. With these illnesses I'm always learning


me too :)


an interesting thing about SIBO, vets are aware its common in dogs, especially alsations.

if you search the net, you will see they suspect its to do with lack of secretory IgA and maybe lack of digestive enzymes. This wouldnt surprise me.

you can buy secretory IgA as 'colostrum'. this is from cows. It should (in theory) also help with candida. possibly only if you were lacking in it. Biocare do a supplement.

I expect lack of the basic protecting things in any small intestine will likely be a factor in candida overgrowth too. When people talk about candida, they are mostly meaning (I think) overgrowth of bacteria in the small intestine. Its the same scenario as SIBO, except antibiotics would make it worse of course.