Lyme Disease

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Just a remember that the salt C is used to get rid of the parasite that you may aquire with the lyme bacteria from the tick gut. It will not take care of the bacteria, but will take care of the nematodes. So antibiotics are needed for the Lyme bacteria.

I did antibiotic for 7 years and that resulted in candida and relapses of my lyme. The salt C has taken care that problem. I feel alot better now. I still do saunas as well and that also helps.

Before you try the salt c do the reseach.

Rue


Rue,

I did not know this about the Salt C.

I dont think many others do either,
from all that I have heard.

I have had those nematodes come out of me, years ago, hundreds of them, when I was on a parasite cleanse from an ND.

I now know that this is why when I was ON the salt C I still was getting sick and had to go back on antibiotics.

I did the Salt C today and big herx, I am still on antibiotics too.

thanks for this info, where did you find this out?

It is on the lymestrategies group at yahoo. They talk about the nematodes.
They even show pictures of the little buggars.

Like other natural cures people don't do the research before they try it. I read everything I could about salt C before I tried it.

I am on a maintaince dose because I am having trouble with my thyroid. Missed the part of the reseach that told me that Vit C can cause the thyroid to flip from hypo to hyper. So if you have a thyroid condition you have to careful with the salt C.

Rue


What's fascinating to me is that so
many of us are talking Lyme (a bacterial
infection) on a candida board.

I was mis?-diagnosed with candida years
ago, and when treatment did nothing,
I looked further and found Lyme to be
a better match.

It sounds like I'm not the only one.


No, we've been dealing with this for a while. You might want to search the archives a bit... we've talked quite a bit about MP, cell wall deficient bacterial infections, etc.

BTW, I'm not getting great feedback from my doctors on MP. Are you working with an doc who is claiming success?


It's just that back when I started
posting here the general feeling was
abx were a big no-no. Now we're
embracing them for Lyme, and it feels
odd to do so on this board.

I'd agree it's possible to have both
a bacterial and fungal infection if
the immune system is not functioning
correctly.

I probably have some gut candida as
evidenced by how chlortrimazole creme
helps. However, I tried most of the
antifungal meds, and never had herxing
anything like I'm now getting from abx.

My doc recommended the MP because my
vitamin D ratios were extremely
abnormal, and the MP is the only
protocol which purports to explain
why.

AFAIK, application of the MP for Lyme
is so new, no one has yet completed
the full treatment process, so we
don't yet know the success rate.



What is mp? IS it marshall protocol?


It seems that candida and lyme go hand in hand... at least nearly all lymies have to deal with candida. The big question I have is what percentage of candida folks are lymies. I bet it's a big percentage, but obviously hard to know for sure.

I am wondering if lyme actually causes candida(I mean aside from the antibiotic treament that causes candida)


,

Just to let you know, I have lyme, and the Salt C did nothing for me.
I herxed on it but then it just did not work, I continued to get very ill, was in hospital, then allergic to all foods, and near dead, EVEN when I was doing the Salt C. So be careful.

I had to go back on antibiotics, because I would have died with alternative therapies.

I dont know if the Salt C did not work for me because I have other coinfections not addressed, not sure.

Some say the Salt C kills coinfections, it would have killed me had I kept doing it.

CAUTION with the alternatives. I think some are forgeting that they had previously done antibiotics, and without these would the Salt C have done so much good?

Because of me listening to others and how well they were doing with the alternatives, I kept going.
I shoudl not have, I was a case or am a case that the Salt C did not help me.

I know there are some lyme boards that really get upset when others push alternatives for lyme. I never understood why they got so upset.

I now do, lyme is very serious, wether it is so serious for some becuse they have coinfections, I dont know.

I just now know that anyone with lyme and other coinfections has to be VERY careful with alternatives, and many on lymenet know this.

If one has done antibiotics and they did not work, then on to alternatives, or if they are not that sick, then alernatives to try.

Also, Rosemary i know Of, I have spoken to her through email, and i think that when she says how well she is doing on the Salt C, I think she should also state that very likely or quite possiblye she would
not be where she is at without antibiotics or RIFE, so this has to be told.

I read other stories that they say Rife has given them their life back, but they forget to mention the years of antibiotics they were on before Rife.
Same goes for Salt C, one has to look what they did before this.

Jeannie, thanks so much for the info. I am aware that this can happen, and that everything we do, alternative or not, is a risk. This is such a tough disease, its almost impossible to know what to do. I appreciate all perspectives. Hope you start feeling better.

A.


May I ask how most of you who contracted Lyme think you got it. Is it always tick borne? or are there various ways you can get it. I think that I was tested for this many years ago and I didn't have it then. The first time you tested for it, was it accurate, or did it take a few tests to prove it? I want to learn more about this since it seems to affect so many here. Thanks


My Lyme test was negative too, but no
one told me what a huge % of false
negatives there are.

The Marshall Protocol folks say that
the vitamin D ratio test is a much more
reliable way to determine infection
by Lyme or other similar bugs.


This is interesting. So the Lyme, may lower Vit D levels, resulting in poor calcium uptake, and an imbalanced PH?


Well, what the MP says is that Lyme
and similar bugs consume 25D and
convert it to the active 1,25D form.

Consequently, your 25D can drop low,
and 1,25D go high, and that can cause
all sorts of illness.

The MP also says the immune system
goes into overdrive to try to eradicate
the bugs, but these bugs can hide
within the immune system itself and
thus survive.

The result is the body is producing
immune-related inflammation, and that
in turn can produce many symptoms.

For years I've felt like my gut,
and head, and throat and sinuses are
inflamed, and no one could explain
why. The doctors would try to treat
each one separately. The MP says
they're all part of the same problem.


Can this low vitamin D be caused from things other than lyme or is it a pretty good indicator of lyme disease?


Liz - Well, besides Lyme-type bacteria,
there are two things I know of that can
cause low 25D with high 1,25D. The
first is hyperparathyroidism, since
PTH hormone encourages the kidney
to convert 25D to 1,25D. (My PTH
has been normal.)

The other is a very low intake of
dietary D coupled with lots of
exposure to sunshine. I'm too ill
to leave the house much, so I don't
get much sun.

I'm not a doctor, so perhaps there
are other causes too. So, at least
for me, that leaves Lyme or similar
bacteria that the MP says convert 25D
to 1,25D.


What have you done to erradicate the inflammation? Have you tried the salt-c? It sounds very tricky, if the bugs are hiding. I am not sure how the salt-c would kill them. Even if one boosted PH, the immune system may not get the signal to attack, right? Thanks for the info


Well, steroids work wonders for reducing
my inflamation, but you can't stay
on the stuff for long without serious
side effects.

I have not tried salt/c, largely because
I hadn't heard of it until after
starting the MP.

I haven't found a good resource for
info about how 25D and 1,25D levels
(low or high) impact calcium and pH.


Thank you for your time, and your info.


I got it most proaly after a 6 week iking and camping trip. I never saw the rash or tick ut if you are itten y a NYMPH tick, which is the size of a pin head, well you are not going to notice it or get a rash. In fact, some say that it will take a while for the acteria to reproduce so you can get sick weeks or months after eing itten.

You can catch it gardening or at a picnic too. There is an excellent article in the Sunday Tri Magazine from this summer aout a woman who could have ONLY contracted it in her garden... in Oak park, the first suur west of the city.

There are rumours that fleas and mosquitos can transmit them. There is NO way to prove this ut it is not totally far out. I would see no reason why aesia, which resemles malaria and is BLOOD BORNE, can't e transmitted y fleas/skeets.

Aout tests, there are simply not reliale for a really complicated hosts of reasons--ranging from the fact that you care making no antiodies too all the antiodies are attached to some protein while fighting the ug, to the fact that the strain is constantly mutating and the test may not even pick up on a strain.

Tests are simply not reliale. Herxing on ax, or c-salt will proaly give you a etter indication.

I may e sounding a little alarmist ut if you have yeast and are not getting etter, there is something else going on and metals and lyme are usually some of the main culprits.

What a great post! I don't view your ideas as alarmist. I think it is important to investigate all of the possibilities. I consider it being thorough. If the doctors won't be thorough, then we are the ones that have to be. Unfortunately, to the outside world this makes us look like hypochondriacs, alarmists, or paranoid people. I have been exposed many times to the deep woods when I attended camp as a child, I also attended several picnics. I lived in upstate for a few years where tics were very prevelent. They called them deer ticks. I have also spent many hours in the garden. I believe that I was tested for lime as a teen. I still question the accuracy of the test. I am starting the salt/c very cautiously and carefully today. I also see metals as a possible cause, and realize that any herx may result from metals and/or Lyme combined. I have been ill for more than half of my life, and there must be a reason that I haven't been able to get to the bottom of. When I first saw the salt/c posts, I was too brain-fogged out to follow what was going on. Since Sheryl's post, I have been able to focus in on what that discussion was all about. I really appreciate your post. I like to be informed.


Penny

Let us know how it goes. Please do go very slowly. I was on 4 grams for 4 months! In other words, I proceeded VERY SLOWLY. When I ramped up, I also added a road spectrum of liver support, which I should have done from the start. I now take lipo-gsh, Sam-e, and milk thistle...

Good luck!


Jeannie how are you doing? I wonder how you are coping with candida due to all the antibiotics? I think that because lyme affects people so differently and at different levels, some people can maybe get results with the naturals but you really have to be doing it right. Most lyme doctors advocate antibioitics and I know that the combo of antibioitics and hyperbaric really has helped my son. He is still on a different set of antibioitics. HE was pretty ill and I doubt if he could have gotten to where he is without the antibiotics.The thing I am concerned about is what will happen when he stops? Apparently there can be a high rate of returning symptoms. HE is lucky because he can tolerate the antibiotics but some people cannot and that can be a real problem.. I am hearing more and more good things about rife machines and am thinking about purchasing one . Have you tried doing rife? I am assuming that alot of people that do the salt c are also doing other things with herbals and supplements.


Liz,

I am on the lymesites where people use antibiotics, and people DO get well from long term antibiotics.
Thousands are on these sites, on antibiotics. Most do not want to be on them, but alternatives did not work.

Some have been OFF antibiotics for a year or more, and are doing well.

Some have to periodically go back on antibiotics. I was under the impression that once on antibiotics you are or were on them for life, NOT the case Liz, that is what others had said and shoudl have NEVER said this as it is false, and scares some to not go on antibiotics.

Lyme is still being studied, so we dont really know how it operates in us. We or the Dr's know much, but still learn as we go.

Tick coinfections need to be addressed from what I have read and learned from others. I frequent lymenet mostly, these people have been to death camp, and out of it.
That is where I have been.

Many are on alternatives with antibiotics.

I have done Rife, and they are still learning about Rife Liz, to do with lyme. FAR too many comments are made that are made to sound 100% accurate and they are not. Rife is not as great for some as for others.
Some get astounding results from Rife, with a good machine. I need to try a better machine, maybe I can find a ND that has one, instead of purchasing one and then finding out it does not work for me, or makes me worse. When I say worse, it is not herxing, it is making me drier, why, I dont know. Drier in the lungs, and throat. This happened to another woman, she had an excellent machine, but after one or more years of rife, it started to backfire for her, like it did me, however Liz, most do not have this happen, so dont let this scare you. Join the Yahoo lymerife site.

I have done rife, but it started to make me drier, worse, I did it for 6 months or so. I did not have a great machine, it was not strong enough.

I now have electromagnetic sensitivites, so I wont use Rife.
This did not happen from Rife, I was told it may be lyme, or may be Bartonella.

I am not sure what is making me so sick now, either lyme or a coinfection. I know, I know that I was off antibiotics far too long, that is what has set me back, that is what did me in.

Good for your son, make sure that he has stopped herxing, for 2 months, then go off antibiotics, make sure he has treated, erlichosis, babesia, and bartonella, and other tick infections if he has them.

Good luck Liz,

I just stopped by the board before going to bed, and I was so sad to hear of your difficulties. You are such a sweet lady, that has given so much support to myself and everyone on here. I am wondering what brought on this horrific crisis? Has your emotional life taken a sharp turn, or do you feel the symptoms are purely physical? Do you check your Ph, take any green drinks, mineral supplements or rotate probios with your abx?


Jeannie,I would never suggest not taking ax and I would never suggest only to use alternatives. It is up to a person to decide and see how s/he reacts to it.
I am one that got worse and worse on ax and stalized off of them. You as many react differently.

I also think that for many folks c-salt may e a core component to their program ut many will need adjuncts whether it is rifing or getting rid of co-infections or whatever it may e.

I also think that c-salt releases a lot of toxins, either y killing critters or aiding in the release of metals and one darn etter e very careful with that aspect of this therapy.

I also don't see why folks can't e on ax and c-salt at the same time. There are a numer of folks on LS following that route too.

I hope you have good luck with the aesia meds. Knocking that out may help a lot.

Have you also pondered the Marshall Protocol? Some folks are having good success with it too.

,

I am trying the salt C along with antibiotics now.

It could be that the lyme in me was far to progressed to handle just the salt c. It may be that there was too much lyme in me, compared to you, so my immune could not handle it.

I know when I was on alternatives, my adrenals could not keep up. I coudl feel how much we need our adrenals to fight lyme. When I went on antibiotics, I felt SO much better. Like my adrenals were and immune were given a rest and antibiotics took over, it was such a wonderful feeling, like I was going to actually live, it was that scary.

When I was on alternatives for 6 months, about in month 4, I awoke shaking, I could not get out of bed I was so weak, but I kept on alternatives, I near died from them.
Honestly, it was so scary, that is why I say what I do in my posts, just to caution others.

I am going to get the tests done for the MP, but have heard, the MP does not work for all. I will see what tests say.

I will see what this babesia combo does for me.

Lucky you to have the salt c work so well. I am having this infection in me progress, even now, it is so scary.


Well said b,

Another point I'd like to make is that progress from s/c can't be measured in days or weeks... you have to use it for months if not a year or two before you know how effective it has been. To be sure, it's VERY EASY to assume s/c is making you worse in the first few months. All kind of symptoms can come roaring back from out of nowhere... nearly every symptoms I had ever had I reexperienced in the first few months, which is scary no doubt.

The folks who eventually claimed to benefit from s/c all had to initially hold the course through difficult times. In my case, now I have exceptionally improved digestion, a 90% reduction in joint pain, and I can handle any number of adjuncts that previously were impossible.


Dpd,

I had herxes a thousand times worse on antibiotics, but always felt better later, after a herx from antibitoics. I did not have this with the salt C.

It could be that I have had lyme much longer then you or others or a much more virulent strain, or coinfection. Some need IV Rocephin for over a year, others get well with orals.

That could possibly be why the salt c works for you and Beilla and others.

I wish to God that it worked for me, or had, I may do it while on antibitoics, will see.


Everything is not a herx.

Had I continued with the Salt C I would be dead, and I want to get this info out here to others who are as sick as I.

I know many, most on lymenet that had dont alternatives and they did not work. I dont like getting into arguements with others about this, but it MUST get out there, because lyme, or the tick infections will kill some of us.

Salt C is fine, and it is great if is working for you, but be careful what you say, as it could cost some there life. I mean this.

It is tough to put what I am saying out there on a candida board or to others that had the Salt C work.

So, , what i had was not a herx.
I listened to others like yourself while I was on Salt C, and kept going, and kept getting sicker, not better. It was when I ended up at Emergency, allergic to ALL foods,
not barely able to stand, that I knew I would die if I did not go back to the LLMD and to stop the Salt C.


How are you feeling now Jeannie? I did the first dose of c salt today and so far I feel ok.


Hi ,

I am on Babesia Meds right now.
Clindamycin and Quinine.

How am I? TERRIBLE. Yes, really terrible. Im telling you like it is.

Breathing deadly, but hope it is a healing crisis. I stopped the clindamycin for one day, and awoke so ill I really thought I would die.

Some are like myself, they need the antibiotics for a long time. Others dont, I dont know why.

If you are not that sick the Salt C may be fine. Just be careful, watch how you do.

FOr instance now, I am so ill and not sure if it is herxing, or if I am getting worse. When I say ill, I mean too ill to drive and get out of bed mostly. Too ill to be in the light in any area of the house.

SO, be very careful, I had no idea that this would happen, but now looking back, while off antibiotics, I had signs, but never knew then, but know now.

I had become allergic to antibiotics, for UTI's this was because of lyme coming back.
I was even allergic to the some lyme antibiotics that were no longer effective.

It could also be that I have babesia, maybe that is why the salt c did not work, but I had gone on artemissin before for babesia, did herx on it, but then still sick, and in hospital for lyme symptoms, but thought they were something else.

So, be careful. I may also need to be treated for Bartonella, I had a
test done, and it was saying I had been exposed to it in my life, but tests are not too accurate.

So after this babesia antibiotics, nothing happens, on to more antibiotics.

I know how you feel about antibiotics, and LYME, I really do.

Even now, it is too hard to believe, but it is real, in me and how could I not believe. If I sound angry, I am, angry because I want a break from this hell.

Some on lymenet are like me, you just have to keep at it, and one day things usually turn.

Wow, Jeannie, I am so sorry :( You have been though such hell for years.

I'm wondering about your doctor. You were told my a psychic that you had Lyme, right? Did you blood ever show it? If not, how did you get a doctor to treat you? If you are too ill to reply I understand.


Hi ,

Yes, I was told by the Psychic I told you to call. She is not called a psychic, she is called a Spiritual Medium, this is what she said she liked to be called. There was a difference she said.

After this call I made over 2 years ago, I thought it was hogwash I had lyme, but because this woman was right about other things in the reading on the phone, I thought i better see a LLMD later.

I did, treated for lyme clinically.

I had a IGENEX lyme western blot test done over a month ago, and it was positive for lyme.
So, yes I have lyme.

It is unbelievabel that this woman picked this up, so unreal.
Lucky me she picked it up.

Prior to this call i was so ill, waking in the night gasping for air, had not showered sometimes for 5 days so weak. I was so bloody ill , and this call saved my life.

I am not one to frequent psychics, this was my 2nd time I did, and would call this woman again if i needed to.

My LLMD thought it was not lyme, he said it did not sound like lyme, but he said he could be wrong... I came postive with the test. I may also have other coinfections. Maybe a deadly one.

I dont know why I keep getting so ill. This woman, this psychic, said I would have troubel getting treatment and that i had to push, because they would not think it is lyme, and she said I had to get treated to not give up, or I would die.

She was right. Blows my mind that she was right. I now believe, answers come from anywhere.

SHeryl, you may be fine and not at all like me, just be careful.

Thats right, I remember you gave me her number. so, I'm sorry I am confused..did you test negative for Lyme ever? Or did you test positive w/your first test?


Hi Sheryl,

I tested negative twice for lyme with the Canadian test. I had these 2 tests done 2 years ago.

I tested positive with IGENEX over a month ago for lyme. It was the Western Blot. My LLMD said he felt the IGENEX test showed a long term chronic infection. I have read that with the IGENEX test your LLMD can tell if it is long term/chronic.

I would get the IGENEX lyme test to see how you test. There are different ones. I did the Western Blot, 2 of them for lyme because I was ON antibiotics. I called IGENEX lab and they said if you were ON antibiotics already for lyme, do the Western Blot.

See a LLMD Sheryl, get a good one, this way they can listen to your symptoms. Your dog has it does he not?

Just do it and get it over with.
I would, just to be safe. Get it out of the way, see what they say, if you have the money get the test done, or maybe you can get it covered.

Maybe you dont even have lyme, just to be safe, I would get tested and visit a LLMD.

I am really sick, that is why I say this to you. Others with lyme are not as sick as I. From all that I have read, people like me that are this sick USUALLY have coinfections as well.

I am on babesia meds, never been this sick this long from antibiotics. I hope it is a good thing. Nothing like lyme herxing, this is different babesia herxing.

Hope this helps.

My acupuncturist is going to order the igenix western blot for me. I am also having the standard blood test at the hospital, but don't expect much from that. Hope you feel better Jeannie!