The Liver
Hi Brett,
Thought I would answer you up here in case it got buried.
Are you eating too many cultured veggies? If they are giving you die off, then they are by definition affecting your liver if it lasts more than a week or so. My rule of thumb is liver always comes first. Is the pain new since you started the veggies, or have you had it? Also, there is a difference between die off and toxicity. Die off is a short duration of a week or so. If it becomes "toxicity" (ie. goes on and on) you are stressing your liver too much.
I used to think that the reason I was feeling bad was due to having "fed the candida" by eating a cheat food. What was actually happening was that my liver was overloaded and that caused similar symptoms. I have read that your diet is very limited, but I propose it is not because of candida per se, but because your liver is overloaded. An overloaded liver cannot process even the natural toxins found in foods, and that triggers reactions. Once liver is working better, reactions dissipate. I have seen this over and over in myself. When my liver is too stressed, I react to everything. When it is working better, I can eat many more things, even things I could not eat the week before. Also, the more toxic I was, the more candida would grow (it eats toxic waste), so keeping free of toxicity became my #1 weapon against candida. I discovered antifungals backfire after a while because my liver could not keep up with the resultant toxic waste. So, what to do?
I would get my hands on some Sun A Chlorella and down up to 5 packets of granules or up to 15 grams worth of tablets a day until you feel clearer. Back off the cultured veggies for a bit while you are doing this, as you don't want to add to your toxic load thru die off. My rule is to try to never go beyond my liver's capacity to process. If I start feeling crappy, I know I am processing more than liver can handle. When you feel clear, try some of the liver-healing foods that you think you can't handle now due to sugar content, such as apples, carrots and especially lemon. I would bet dollars to donuts that you will find you can eat them w/o growing candida after you liver has had a break.
Other good liver tips:
Try a little bit of Liverite LiverAid or Livatone plus. Some is good, but if you have a weak phase 2 liver detox like I do, too much will stimulate phase 1 (toxin mobilization from hiding places) beyond what your phase 2 can mop up, and that results in the brain fog, fatigue, etc. The Chlorella is excellent for phase 2.
No Caffeine. Caffeine severely hampers phase 2 and we need all the phase 2 response we can get. Not even de-caf. No chocolate or cocoa. I have noticed even a .5 oz. bite sized Bug Bite chocolate bar about the size of a large postage stamp will hamper my phase 2 for days.
Colonics. getting the old crud out helps over time. I do get a bit of fatigue for a day or so after one, but am less and less affected each time. Use lots of chlorella after a colonic.
Drink all that water they say is good. Helps flush it all out.
Lemon, carrots, cucumbers, celery, apples, beets, leafy greens, garbanzos, are all helpful to the liver. Eat lots (once you can after doing the chlorella)
Learn the difference in yourself between die off and overtoxicity. For me, die off always involved nausea, for example, and toxicity does not.
Vitamin C - I take lost of this and find it very healing,
Digestive Enzymes - will help your body handle some of the foods you react to while you are working at this.
Hope this is helpful!
that was helpful information about the difference between die off and toxicity. I am wondering how people doing the salt C can tell if what they are experiencing is die off or toxicity from the salt c. I mean does it alwasy mean that something is helping if it makes you ill? What does one do if they are unable to use chollera due to metal toxicity?
That is a great question, Liz. No, it does NOT always mean it is helping if you feel sick. Often it does, but sometimes it does not. I would imagine one could tell if one were feeling progress "in the background" in spite of feeling bad on the surface. What I mean by that is, for instance, I can see that over the past 6 months I have been detoxifying because some deep seated problems have been correcting themselves. I had a frozen shoulder for the past 7 years, and it has been going away bit by bit, in spite of daily ups and downs of detoxing. It is now completely gone, and I KNOW the problem was due to toxins and now they are almost all released from that area. Also, when I eat a bad food, my reactions are SOOO much less severe than they used to be. Saturday I ate bbq potato chips, cheeses, deli meats, home fries, cheesecake with a regular crust and everything, and drank wine and beer (I was at a party - I don't normally eat like this!). Next day I was a little draggy for 3/4 of the day, but still managed to get 3 loads of laundry done as well as clean my kitchen and sweep. By Monday I was pretty much back to normal. Now, if this stuff had been eaten even a year ago, I would have been flat on my back for a week or two, wheezing my a** off, barely able to walk, and sleeping all day. Now THAT's progress!!
As per salt/c in particular, I can't say as I know folks do that for Lyme and I don't know anything about Lyme or how long it takes to cure. It is possible that Lyme die-off is different than candida die-off, which is what I am dealing with, but I just don't know.
I am not aware of any reason not to take Chlorella if you are dealing with metals. It is such a weak chelator. I have metals issues and it has been great for me in spite. I have read it can mobilize "a little" but mops up scads more than it mobilizes, leaving you with a nice deficit. :) Do you have other info on this?
Hi Sans or should I say Sucre?
I am amazed at your ability to eat all the party goodies! That's great news about your frozen shoulder clearing up and the toxins gettin gout. You must be pretty close to reclaiming your full health. Congrats! It took an incredible amount of work and I'm glad you're seeing the fruits of your labor.
That is a great question, Liz. No, it does NOT always mean it is helping if you feel sick. Often it does, but sometimes it does not. I would imagine one could tell if one were feeling progress "in the background" in spite of feeling bad on the surface. What I mean by that is, for instance, I can see that over the past 6 months I have been detoxifying because some deep seated problems have been correcting themselves. I had a frozen shoulder for the past 7 years, and it has been going away bit by bit, in spite of daily ups and downs of detoxing. It is now completely gone, and I KNOW the problem was due to toxins and now they are almost all released from that area. Also, when I eat a bad food, my reactions are SOOO much less severe than they used to be. Saturday I ate bbq potato chips, cheeses, deli meats, home fries, cheesecake with a regular crust and everything, and drank wine and beer (I was at a party - I don't normally eat like this!). Next day I was a little draggy for 3/4 of the day, but still managed to get 3 loads of laundry done as well as clean my kitchen and sweep. By Monday I was pretty much back to normal. Now, if this stuff had been eaten even a year ago, I would have been flat on my back for a week or two, wheezing my a** off, barely able to walk, and sleeping all day. Now THAT's progress!!
As per salt/c in particular, I can't say as I know folks do that for Lyme and I don't know anything about Lyme or how long it takes to cure. It is possible that Lyme die-off is different than candida die-off, which is what I am dealing with, but I just don't know.
I am not aware of any reason not to take Chlorella if you are dealing with metals. It is such a weak chelator. I have metals issues and it has been great for me in spite. I have read it can mobilize "a little" but mops up scads more than it mobilizes, leaving you with a nice deficit. :) Do you have other info on this?
Hey Liz
On the whole, the day to day stuff is toxicity, and the cholrella helps manage that. It is usually some comination of fog, some stiffness, fatigue. etc. I use chlorella for metal-release and lyme idning and folks who cannot tolerate it are either allergic or not taking enough.
The herxes are way more pronounced and they do pass. I think even for c-salt, the longest ones are 3 weeks ut they are usually 1 week or so.
I do worry aout my liver on this protocol. I feel a lot of crap moving out of my ody/lymph and just decided to lower my dose from 8 grams a day to 5-6 and will stay there for awhile. 8 was my top dose. I got there ut my thyroid was sluggish and I was losing hair ecause I was releasing too much gunk. Now it is ack to normal.
My entonite clay gets here thursday and I will see if that helps at all with the metals... I hope so /c I worry aout devloping an allergy to chlorella.
Have you tried the c-salt at all again?
Hey Sans, all good advice but I have tried many of the things you listed. I also cannot eat any of the fruits or high sugar vegetables. I am unique it seems because I have a sure proof way of telling when I am having die-off. If I eat something that feeds the candida, it shows on my skin, I get acne like breakouts in all the soft warm areas. This tells me, I have fed the yeast. Then, when I clean up my diet, and the breakouts go away, that's when my liver aches due to the die-off. It's the same everytime. The better my skin looks, the better I feel, but in order to clear up the candida, I have to be very strict with my diet. Nothing I have tried changes this fact. I have tried the Liverite pills, milk thistel, dandelion and on and on,you name it, I've tried it. The only thing I haven't tried that you mentioned is the chlorella. Maybe I will give it a shot. I am starting to get worried about my liver, the last few days, it has hurt enough to wake me up at night. I even get a liver spot between my eyes that comes and goes much more often than it used to.
I see what you mean. I'm sorry. I still think you should give chlorella a try though. It is the single best thing I ever tried. I used to have some dull transient liver pain, but I have not had it since being on the chlorella.
I am so sorry you are having such a hard time. I wish I knew something more that might help. You seem like such a nice guy - you deserve a break!
Thanks. I'm getting there, I think. I will try the chlorella.
Hi
This is the best article on the liver pathways I have yet to find.
http://tuberose.com/Liver_Detoxification.html
Be careful with Vitamin C as it speeds up Phase 1.
Regards
Awesome article and also thanks for the Vit C advice. I am overactive phase 1 and underactive phase 2 so I do need to be careful with phase 1.
Simon, I got half way thru that article and felt like having a stiff drink. The liver is so complicated, I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
Brett, I hope you got far enough in the article to read that alcohol is a substance that activates phase 1 detox pathway. I've suspected for a while that good wine and beer somehow, in moderation, benefit the liver. (I'm pretty sure you can't drink beer - I remember hearing about your history - so I'll take it upon myself to hoist one for you.)
Yes! I have felt the same way. Sometimes even tho I have a weak phase 2, there are times when I find stimulation of phase 1 helpful. This is also why Chlorella claims to be good for preventing hangovers! :)
Niles, no I didn't make it that far, but that would confirm my suspicions that alcohol in moderation can "kick start" the liver. I had sworn up and down, that after an occasional drink, my liver worked better. This may be the answer why.
Hi Simon,
that was a really good article you posted. I noticed a few errors though:
1. "Dietary glutathione (found in fresh fruits and vegetables, cooked fish, and meat) is absorbed well by the intestines and does not appear to be affected by the digestive processes. Dietary glutathione in foods appears to be efficiently absorbed into the blood. However, the same may not be true for glutathione supplements."
I would question whether dietary glutathione from foods is indeed absorbed, and even if it were it would need to be broken down before being used by the body.
2. "Vitamin C raises glutathione by increasing its rate of synthesis."
This is definitely false. Vit C doesn't so much increase the rate of synthesis, what it does is recycle oxidised glutathione (GSSG) back to its reduced form (GSH). The end result is the same though (you get more glutathione).
3. "In an effort to increase antioxidant status in individuals with impaired glutathione synthesis, a variety of antioxidants have been used. Of these agents, only Mega H-, vitamin C and NAC have been able to offer some possible benefit."
NAC isn't used as an antioxidant per se, but rather as the main promoter of glutathione synthesis. Glutathione is a tripeptide consisting of 3 amino acids, and Cysteine is usually the rate limiting amino acid. So NAC increases Glutathione which is your body's primary antioxidant.
Cheers Chandler.
Brett and I are PATHOLOGICAL DETOXIFIERS.
I recently tried PhosChol to push out toxic fat but my liver did not like it and I stopped after two pills.
I am struggling to slow Phase 1 and upregulate Phase 2. I am looking at Calcium D-Glucurate to enhance Glucuronidation as this pathway is distrubed by gut dysbiosis and Gilberts Syndrome - I have both!
I am also pondering SAMe.
Chandler - do you know of any more excellent articles on the liver?
Mistake - it is not Brett but SanSucre who is a pathological detoxifier as I am also.
Yes, that is me! A great description of me :) I am obsessed as I am convinced the liver is the path to health.
Someone on Curezone just mentioned molybdenum to me as being very helpful for phase 2. I need to research this, as I 'thought" I once read not to do if you have fillings, but then I read so much it could have been about something else . . .sigh. . .
Sans, any other ideas to help the liver besides chlorella? Mine is really achey and I just noticed that the liver spot between my eyes is back worse than usual. I don't understand it. I hope my liver is not giving up.
Hi Brett,
Gosh, well, nothing more than I have already posted at various points here in this thread, such as the good foods to eat, what to avoid (caffeine and chocolate), dry skin brushing, etc. Those are all the tricks in my book, at least that I have discovered so far. Chlorella is King, though. Any reason why you don't want to try that? Other things in the "green" family, such as blue green algae, spirulina, liquid chlorophill, will help in same way, but not as powerfully, and you sound like you need powerful liver help!
Sans, if I remember right, I couldn't find chlorella anywhere I looked. Where do you get it? I've tried all those other green things without much success, but I will try anything at this point. I am really aching. p.s. how do you dry skin brush? Thanks.
Hi Brett,
Here is a website to AllStar Health, which has the cheapest price for the Chlorella that I have seen. I like there granules cause I think (just speculation) that they get in faster/better/are more readily absorbed than the tablets.
To dry skin brush, get a natural bristle bath-type brush and stroke upwards and towards the heart. I am usually in a rush when I do it so probably don't do as many strokes as I should. I start and do 20 upwards strokes on each lower leg, then do same on each thigh. For arms, start at the wrist and move upwards, nice long strokes. For butt, torso, hips use a circular motion. Do not do the face, though. I usually do this prior to jumping in the shower. Which reminds me, alternating very hot water with water as cold as you can stand will also help stimulate the liver.
follow the dry skin brushing with a quick rub-in of sesame oil. really great detox treatment, and feels not so bad as well. i do it every morning for the most part. an old ayurverdic tip.
