Cell Wall Study

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2005/11/1/world/20051101081018&sec=world


Thanks for the link.I attended a medical conference a few weeks back the theme was Cancer. One of the lectures I attended was "Infection a cause of Cancer" given by a Max Parkin ...It didn't make for a comfortable hour or so of listening..A couple of topics were the involvement of Helicobacter Pylori & Epstein Bar Virus ..HP it turns out infects 50% of us in the west & it's highly cacogenic!!! Almost everyone carries the EBV ...he puzzled on how the virus became pathogenic in some. I collared him at the end of the lecture and asked had he considered stealth pathogens ..he asked which one in particular .the obvious model was chlamidyia oh , good one that ,i'll make a note of it..I gave him a bit of our tale, said i was concerned that plainly endemic infections were simply just ignored,but he didn't want to know ..Sadly the conclusion of the presentation was that infection was the cause of approx 22% of all cancers ..he did say it was a conservative estimate ..very conservative i'd say ..Paul


In essence, cancer is a disease of the immune system, in that certain cells (class I major histocompatibility complex (MHC)-restricted T cells, non-MHC-restricted natural killer (NK) cells and Macrophages) should immediately detect and destroy malignant cells.
Many xenobiotics in our environment have the capacity to either suppress or de-sensitize these cells. Heavy metals for example will cause an underexpression of CD4 T-cells and an over expression of CD-8 cells, causing the immune system to fail to respond properly to certain events and become overly sensitive to others. Organochlorine and organophosphorus pesticides, Poly chlorinated biphenyls, Furanes and Dixins


Well yes ,thanks for that Steve, but unfortunately that�s not all the story ,.Stealth Infections, that is infections we do not recognise as an antigen therefore no antibodies and very much a co-infection associated with yeast.They push the IS into an inappropriate response� that is a wound response rather than the normal �attack�response �The IS is reacting not to the pathogen but the toxins & damage caused�macrophages are multi rolled, but only deploy in one role only. The cytokines say damage not attack .. The pathogens push the normal inflammatory response and it becomes runaway�Anyway its all here �http://www.journal-inflammation.com/content/1/1/3

I�m attending a lecture by Dr Vance Spence in a couple of weeks the subject is ME research �Making the breakthrough� I hope I will be able to meet with him .we�ll see�Paul http://www.meresearch.org.uk/about/team.html

Hi Paul,

I still see this all as part of the same mechanism.

The same immunodeficiency that allows candida to multiply allows other opportunistic micro-organisms to multiply, so co-infection is to be expected. When certain lymphocytes are upregulated and others suppressed, the relative amounts of Th1 and Th2 cytokines, which promote cell mediated and humoral immunity will also change. Organisms which would normally trigger a humoral (antibody) response may only trigger a cellular response in the case of an immuno-compromised individual or in the case of severely compromised patients, no response at all.

The question is, what triggers organisms that are always present in the body to suddenly become pathogenic?


Steve I see your reasoning but I must say it�s a bit narrow,, a few things that stand out

You say �The same immunodeficiency that allows candida to multiply�

You assume an already compromised IS that�s not usually the case [although it can be] �.. Chicken & egg �..Yeast first immunodeficiency second�.. The classic mode of infection is via antibiotics altering gut conditions allowing yeast to proliferate .That overgrowth downgrades the IS causing immunodeficiency .. If a yeast infection was as a result of toxins, metal or otherwise then clearly Antifungal medication would be ineffectual or at least wouldn�t bring about a cure .. That�s not the case AF�s do cure The inability to metabolise metals can be viewed along with the synthesising of Vits lactic acid clearance ect; its just another system that gone awry care of yeast.

You say
�Organisms which would normally trigger a humoral (antibody) response may only trigger a cellular response�

Yes that�s true..but it�s not that civilised...
That statement is true of standard none extraordinary pathogens .In the case of stealth pathogens they don�t elicit a response at all�. The model is chlamidyia Perfectly healthy individuals contract Chlamidyia

1 in 5 16 to 20 year olds in the uk have the infection its not unique . That�s how the IS gets pushed into �wound Response� it simply doesn�t recognise the invader ,it recognises toxins & damage as the bugs chew on us!!

"The question is, what triggers organisms that are always present in the body to suddenly become pathogenic?
�Ah ,the big question . I�ve also spent a lot of time pondering this one ..were not on our own on what makes a typhoid Mary .It�s a question that doctors ponder , To me it�s fairly clear It�s down to gut flora ..gut flora is vitally important to us in many ways , much more than is generally realised ..i reckon its true to say your as healthy as your gut flora allows you to be �It drives the IS� gut microbes actually stimulate the production of IS components , they interact though special sites called peyers patches in the gut ..So to me it makes sense to associate poor quality flora with infections ..simple as that �Paul



I agree. Indeed, anything that badly disturbs normal flora, from IS incompetence, through AB overuse to hidden food allergies can cause chronic illness. I believe that chronic gut dysbiosis can itself cause IS incompetence.


The interesting thing about cancer and immune system is when you look sometimes at people that never seem ill and appear to be very healthy. Suddenly, they have cancer. The other side of the coin is the people that have long standing illness that are so bad it enables them to work. I am refererring to lyme,candida,fibro,chronic fatigue,etc. They go on for years without ever contracting cancer.
I think a good portion of cancers are caused from hormone over exposure. Probably due to enviromental things.


....Dioxins are compound found in our everyday environments that are particularly immuno-toxic. Mercury for example will cause a definite shift in immune cell proliferation, making the immune system hyper sensitive to certain stimuli while dumbing down its response. There are several classes of compound which either change the absolute number of NK cells or make them far less responsive, such that they loose the ability to detect and attack cells exhibiting Tumor Associated Antigens
(TAAs)


Does anyone have an opinion on some of the newer homopathic metal treatments? It is hard to believe that they would effectively rid your body of metals


Why would he not want to know what you were sharing with hime?


Don�t know about him...But most doctors run a mile from anything new ...Look at the story of HP..i don�t think we will get recognition until we act collectively ...until then we will be considered neurotics ,all in the head people ...We have the perfect vehicle in the uk The British Candida society unfortunately it seems to take the view that appealing to the doctors good nature will change things ..i wish �Paul


It would be nice even to find a doctor with "good nature" to appeal to.


Hi Paul,

I often wonder what it will take and wonder if it needs to start in the schools. Doctors will not waver from the Accepted Standard Protocol of Care because, as you know, if they treat without using standard protocols it leaves them open to lawsuits. The Standard Protocol is a wall that protects them. On the other hand, it's also interesting that lawyers are careful with suing doctors because they recognize that their own family may need medical care and they don't want to lose that. Doctors may decide to refuse treatment of lawyers fearing they may be sued or if they've heard s/he has sued a collegue. Self-preservation.

So, I guess it's back to needed studies. But who will fund the studies?

We're pretty much on our own.

Good insight there Pace , I know most doctors are almost paranoid over the fear of litigation against them �The lawyers have a lot to answer for its they who have created this PC world �..Until we demand & command respect we will continue to be treated with contempt ..Sorry but the more lawyers , doctors, politicians journalists that contract this the better [for the rest of us] �Paul