Heart Pain
Do you know why the coptis gives you heart pain? This is a symptom I dont understand as it seems to originate from many things. Also, I have been doing some research on mycoplasmas,lyme, candida and stealth infections. I came across something interesting last nite when reaading. This particular article stated that saunas are good for detox but conversly if you have a bacterial infection of any kind, the heat can cause bacterial growth. I found this conflicting because many lyme sites advocate using far infared saunas. Has anyaone heard this before? The problem is that many people that have toxicity issues use saunas and may not even realize that they have some type of baacterial infection(a common condition for many with auto immune realted illnesses.
Hi Liz,
>> Do you know why the coptis gives you heart pain? This is a symptom I dont understand as it seems to originate from many things.
Nope. I have not idea. Talked to several people about it, including llmd... none had heard of it. I'll talk to Dr. Zhang and see what he thinks. I'll also ask Dr. K, but don't expect much as he didn't know much about coptis in September.
>> Also, I have been doing some research on mycoplasmas,lyme, candida and stealth infections. I came across something interesting last nite when reaading. This particular article stated that saunas are good for detox but conversly if you have a bacterial infection of any kind, the heat can cause bacterial growth. I found this conflicting because many lyme sites advocate using far infared saunas. Has anyaone heard this before? The problem is that many people that have toxicity issues use saunas and may not even realize that they have some type of baacterial infection(a common condition for many with auto immune realted illnesses.
So this is an interesting concern. I do know that saunas, at least steam saunas, do increase the body's temperature, if ever so slightly, as I get pin pricks in them. Pin pricks are a classic lyme dieoff symptom for me, and the only things that generate this symptom are steam saunas, hot baths, very hot cars on summer days, and salt/c.
Note that Borrelia is VERY suspectible to heat... seems most if not all spirochetes are be. Folk remedies for syphillus included heating people in hot water baths to something like 104 degrees. Many patientes died from this, but some experienced full recoveries apparently. So this particular concern is not valid for Bb in my estimation.
Other bacterial infections such as staph/strep might very well like the increase in temperature. Never thought about it, never heard anything about it, but certainly sounds possible.
Theoretically, immune cell enzymes will digest microbes more effectively at higher temperatures. Infrared sauna will not change core temperature but simply increase blood flow to the skin and production of sweat.
Infra red could also be ionising the organisms as the blood flow is increased to the skin . The most successful sanatoriums treating TB some 70years ago were high in the Alps higher = more intense UV rays ..And dont forget, sweat originates in the gut we drink then sweat via lymphatic ducts If we have pathogenic gut flora , we export it to the skin during this processPaul [see my last post on translocation of bacteria from the gut to the vagina ]
ionising the organisms? It better not be! To ionise an organism, the radiation would need enough energy to knock an orbital electron off an atom and would therefore pose a significant health risk. For ionization of organisms think x-rays or gamma rays..as used in food irradiation
TB clinics high in the mountains had to do with pulmonary health (low humidity, low pollution, low particulates). UV also helps with vitamin production. The infectious agent in TB is Mycobacterium Tuberculosis, which infects the lungs and in a few percent of patients enters the lymphatic system to infect their lymph nodes.
Sweat comes from sweat glands in the skin. Nothing to do with the lymphatic system.
I gave the info after a quite lengthy debate on another forum .Someone provided an article quoting the ionising effects of UV light..I have looked in my records but cant find it ..[so much for google desktop ] Ill ask if anyone else saved the article The conclusions of the article were that the pathogens can be zapped with the very efficient direct effect of UV radiation, that is as the blood infused the skin on sunlight exposure.
I dont follow your logic on the Lymphatic system not being involved in how we perspire!How else do we transport liquid .Seems to me that all water including sweat originates from what we drink and that hits the gut first ..This extract ..gives an insightPaul
Intestinal lesions associated with disseminated candidiasis in an experimental animal model.
Andrutis KA, Riggle PJ, Kumamoto CA, Tzipori S.
Division of Infectious Diseases, Tufts University School of Veterinary Medicine, North Grafton, Massachusetts 01536, USA.
In human patients, disseminated candidiasis, a life-threatening disease for immunocompromised patients, is often associated with intestinal lesions. In this study, we demonstrate that immunosuppressed gnotobiotic (IGB) piglets orally inoculated with wild-type Candida albicans developed extensive intestinal lesions and disseminated infection. Severe ulceration of the ileal mucosa was observed overlying regions of colonization and necrosis of the gut-associated lymphoid tissue. Despite the high susceptibility of IGB piglets to many microbial pathogens, an avirulent mutant strain of C. albicans failed to produce intestinal lesions and exhibited poor dissemination, demonstrating that these effects required virulent organisms. It is likely that in IGB piglets, as in human patients, intestinal lesions provide the mechanism for escape of C. albicans from the gastrointestinal tract. Multinucleated giant cells containing fungal organisms were observed within lymph nodes and lymphatic vessels, and as with other pathogens, such cells could provide a mechanism for dissemination of C. albicans.
PMID: 10834995 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Saunas use long wavelength Infra-red, so why the discussion about UV?
The article you pasted is about Systemic Candidiasis, a life threatening and very specific condition where Candida enters the blood stream of severely immune compromised patients. Most patients with this disorder would be treated in an ICU-type facility
During a 24 hour period, approximately 24 litres of serum-like fluid pass from the blood stream to the body's tissues, bathing them in fluid and providing them with nutrients. During the same period about 20 litres pass back from the tissues into the blood stream, carrying waste products with it. The remaining 4 litres returns to the blood stream via the lymphatic system.
Water is absorbed from the intestines directly into the blood stream, from where it is transported around the body
If bacteria and yeast leak from the intestine into the blood the patient is said to be suffering from bacteraemia. If toxin producing bacteria overwhelm the immune system and are present in the blood in large numbers, the condition is known as septicaemia.
The sweat gland is a tubular structure tangled with capillaries from the blood circulation. This close association allows water, salts & urea to diffuse from the blood into the sweat gland. When body temperature rises, the fluid (sweat) is released from the gland, travels through the sweat duct & reaches the skin surface through structures called pores.
Water is absorbed from the intestines directly into the blood stream, from where it is transported around the body That water will be contaminated with pathogens based in the gut , what stops dissemination by this method given that many of our pathogens including yeast can evade the immune system?
When we eat strongly spiced foods such as curry its only too apparent that we sweat curry ..[sorry] are you suggesting the blood becomes contaminated with the oils/spices that give rise to the smell and then somehow dumps those components in the proximity of the pores & glands ready for excretion?
Take a look at this info on bacteria taken orally being found in the vagina..I think it just makes the point that contrary to popular belief gut infections are not isolated and will/do affect systemically. Or do you think the bacteria hitch a ride in the blood & hop off on arrival at the vagina? [& just the vagina]Or do the bugs get transported when supplying moisture [from the gut where else]to mucus membranes in the vagina
Oral probiotics can resolve urogenital infections.
Reid G, Bruce AW, Fraser N, Heinemann C, Owen J, Henning B.
Lawson Research Institute, London, Ont., Canada. gregor@julian.uwo.ca
We report the first clinical evidence that probiotic lactobacilli can be delivered to the vagina following oral intake. In 10 women with a history of recurrent yeast vaginitis, bacterial vaginosis (BV) and urinary tract infections, strains Lactobacillus rhamnosus GR-1 and Lactobacillus fermentum RC-14 suspended in skim milk and given twice daily for 14 days, were recovered from the vagina and identified by morphology and molecular typing within 1 week of commencement of therapy. In six cases of asymptomatic BV or intermediate BV (based upon Nugent scoring) was resolved within 1 week of therapy.
PMID: 11172991 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE
Paul,
As I've already mentioned, if bacteria escape from the intestine into the blood stream, the patient is in trouble.
In leaky gut for example, the walls of the intestine become more permiable and allow larger molecules to pass into the blood stream to cause allergies and toxicity. Usually proteins need to be broken down to their individual amino acids before they are able to pass through the intestinal walls and into the blood stream. In leaky gut, the extra permiability allow larger fragments of the protein, namely peptides to pass into the blood stream. Peptides consist of a few amino acids, while proteins generally have anything from 50 to several thousand.
Consider that the average bacteria is around 200 times larger than a large protein molecule and you'll understand why bacteria will only pass through the intestine in cases of severe illness.
Steve,
I am familiar with leaky gut, to my mind it adds to the argument of the lymphatic system involvement in dissemination of the infection ..
Systemic candidiasis, does not denote specifically Candida in the blood as you suggest. The actual term for a Candida infection of the blood is Candidemia .
I dont see why the researchers conclusions in the extract I provided that the lymphtic ducts could be the mode of translocation of a yeast infection should not be correct.
After all some cancers use the route to disseminate throughout the body.
The translocation of gut flora to the vagina is a monumental piece of research. It reinforces the argument ..How else do the bacteria travel? I do know of others who have had yeast cultured from their semen , that is after a negative on all other tests. Paul
Like a brick with a hole through it, the alimentary canal is outside the body. Put bacteria in at one end and some come out at the other. Culturing those same bacteria from the Vagina would simply indicate minor transfer and could be predicted.
Similarly, yeast in the semen is hardly significant given that the penis is a major site of yeast infection.
Simple transfer of bacteria and yeast could happen very easily and indeed does while bacteria and yeast passing out of the intestine and transferring to these other sites via the lymphatic system, with no other symptoms present seems very unlikely indeed
Well , transfer has been the front runner for a couple of decades or so ..wipe front to back has been the standard advice to stop the [supposed] cycle
If you read the extract again, its clear that contamination would not have been an issue.
We report the first clinical evidence that probiotic lactobacilli can be delivered to the vagina following oral intake delivered being the operative word , on demand!!
I dont think they were that sloppy that contamination from the bowel could have skewed the results.
A culture from semen is considered a positive result of a systemic infection BTW ..
bacteria and yeast passing out of the intestine and transferring to these other sites via the lymphatic system, with no other symptoms present seems very unlikely indeed
Well , Its not unlikely to the researches is it .It is they who have put their reputations on the line.!! & who said no other symptoms were involved?
Well, again ,
This is interesting
Secrets of cancer spread unlocked
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/1147016.stm
Hi Paul,
I'd be happy to read the original reasearch if you want to post the references
I havent read the full paper I dont subscribe to the journal ,but I will e mail the team see if I can glean a bit more ..Paul
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0ISW/is_264/ai_n14730322
I tend to agree about the bacteria. Warmth makes it grow, extreme heat kills it. I think a sauna would only make your insides warm, and could encourage bacteria to grow. Somehow a fever from the inside out is different I guess?
